Curse

Zawk Tirson · Nov 28, 2010, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Hey all,

Lately I've been frustrated with ranger builds for Jade Quarry. Cripshot seems to be the most effective one on PvX, but that isn't saying much. I've noticed that there were a ton of casters running around JQ, and so after 3 or 4 games in a row of being destroyed by Kurz Mesmers and Eles, I decided to roll my own build. I'm looking for opinions on it, and suggestions as well. Keep in mind I'm fairly new to PvP, so any constructive criticism would be appreciated.

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Ranger / Mesmer
Domination 6
Wilderness Survival 8
Marksmanship 10
Expertise 11 (with +3 from runes)

Magebane Shot
Dshot
Pin Down
Debilitating Shot
Apply Poison
Backfire
Antidote Signet
Natural Stride.

Dshot could be exchanged for Savage Shot if you wanted more damage and less shutdown.

The Backfire is meant to discourage spellcasting, as well as punish if they do it anyways. At 6 domination, it does 77 damage per spell. It has a fixed length duration, which is pretty nice.

The main problem with this is energy management. Sometimes you'll have to wait to get enough energy to cast Backfire, but that's more of a support skill than an opening one.

Thoughts?

Xiaquin · Nov 28, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

I recommend you ditch Backfire first. It has a long cast time, is expensive and hex removal is common in PvP.

I also recommend you drop Natural Stride, as any hex/enchant will kill it. Go with Dodge.

Interrupts are key, but you could also add some degen; bleeding with poison is a good combination.

Zawk Tirson · Nov 28, 2010, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I actually consider Backfire one of the main points of the build. It nearly completely stops Mesmers, who I can't interrupt.

Natural Stride is there due to the short recharge time, but I could get 11 seconds out of Dodge if I use that instead. I'll give that a shot.

I'll also try Hunter's Shot instead of Debilitating. Can't really see the effect of that, so may as well.

Thanks!

Kumu Honua · Nov 28, 2010, 05:33 AM // 05:33

A ranger's job in Jade Quarry is two fold.

1. Cap shrines. (Splinter Barrage, Apply/incendiary). (Whirling defense for ranger shrines)
2. Interrupt RoJ'ers/Elementalists.

Jade Quarry is NOT pvp. It has PVP elements, but you should not be caring about them so much.

Every whammo that you see just laugh and ignore them entirely.

1. Apply Poison.
2. Incendiary Arrows.
3. Savage Shot.
4. Distracting Shot.
5. Natural Stride (Ignore the above advice. It's refresh is what matters. It's use is not defense so much as get to the next shrine fast)
6. Whirling Defense (As mentioned, makes fast work of ranger shrines.)
7. Troll Unguent. (You will frequently have no one healing you.)

In my 8th slot, I prefer to use Rend Enchantments to disable the N/A bombers. They become impotent with just that one skill. Also makes the derv bombs feel the impotence too.

That's just one build, but it's the one that I run.

That backfire is nigh on useless. You have no cover hex, and it takes you the full 3 seconds to cast, so anyone who cares would have all day to rupt it. Leave backfire for the mesmers. Of which isn't much of a lack...

FoxBat · Nov 28, 2010, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zawk Tirson

I actually consider Backfire one of the main points of the build. It nearly completely stops Mesmers, who I can't interrupt.

What the heck kind of mesmers are you facing that they can't interrupt a 3s spell?

What the heck are the mesmers even killing you with? Savage shot lets you easily fire off wastrels worry/demise, and no amount of e-denial is going to stop you getting a dshot or natural stride when you need it. Any of the 2s fastcasted spells like empathy or esurge you should be able to interrupt. Make sure you are using a recurve and you have line of sight, life also gets easier if you can run closer to your target.

As you said you are new it may take practice learning how to interrupt and which key skills to hit, but there is no reason for a magebane ranger to run backfire.

Dodge is OK but I don't see it beating natural with a decent wilderness investment. When running away at 33% you aren't too likely to be hit by hexes, and in JQ it's mostly for moving around empty space rather than escaping people.

For winning JQ it's usually more important to kill carriers or quarries than players, but you'll probably learn more about pvp fighting players for now.

Edit: but just for the sake of argument. Ranger was actually my favorite carrier assassin until the mesmer updates. Something like this;

melandru's shot
kindle arrows
savage shot
dshot
needling shot
poison tip signet
natural stride
lightning reflexes

Set up on the jade for the height advantage, apply your prep and poison tip while waiting for the carrier to spawn, melshot it with a cripple recurve, then swap to short or flat vampiric and autoattack with lreflex. You can fire needling shots as you like but need to keep it free enough so melshot is not slowed down. Once below 50 mash away and you get a dead carrier pretty fast. You can also snare and kill bombers before they can reach your quarry, and interrupt other types of casters if the situation calls for that rather than carrier assassination.

Zawk Tirson · Nov 28, 2010, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

What the heck kind of mesmers are you facing that they can't interrupt a 3s spell?

What the heck are the mesmers even killing you with? Savage shot lets you easily fire off wastrels worry/demise, and no amount of e-denial is going to stop you getting a dshot or natural stride when you need it. Any of the 2s fastcasted spells like empathy or esurge you should be able to interrupt. Make sure you are using a recurve and you have line of sight, life also gets easier if you can run closer to your target.

As you said you are new it may take practice learning how to interrupt and which key skills to hit, but there is no reason for a magebane ranger to run backfire.

Dodge is OK but I don't see it beating natural with a decent wilderness investment. When running away at 33% you aren't too likely to be hit by hexes, and in JQ it's mostly for moving around empty space rather than escaping people.

For winning JQ it's usually more important to kill carriers or quarries than players, but you'll probably learn more about pvp fighting players for now.

Edit: but just for the sake of argument. Ranger was actually my favorite carrier assassin until the mesmer updates. Something like this;

melandru's shot
kindle arrows
savage shot
dshot
needling shot
poison tip signet
natural stride
lightning reflexes

Set up on the jade for the height advantage, apply your prep and poison tip while waiting for the carrier to spawn, melshot it with a cripple recurve, then swap to short or flat vampiric and autoattack with lreflex. You can fire needling shots as you like but need to keep it free enough so melshot is not slowed down. Once below 50 mash away and you get a dead carrier pretty fast. You can also snare and kill bombers before they can reach your quarry, and interrupt other types of casters if the situation calls for that rather than carrier assassination.

I used to run Splinter Barrage, but it's pretty much only good at capping Shrines, and other builds vastly outshine it, so I decided to try something new.

The mesmers that cause troubles are the ones I don't have a line of sight too.

I'll try something like that build out. I've been frustrated by my inability to kill the juggernauts. I have a decent chance of doing it if there's no monk, but if there's a monk there seems to be no point in trying.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 28, 2010, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zawk Tirson

Dshot could be exchanged for Savage Shot if you wanted more damage and less shutdown.

If you take D-Shot off your bar in PvP (or even consider doing so), you should not be playing a bow ranger. Switch classes if you find this necessary.

Quote:

The Backfire is meant to discourage spellcasting,

If you are not succeeding at doing that enough through use of Magebane Shot, D-Shot, and Debilitating Shot, you are doing something very, very wrong. Drop Backfire; you don't even get to trigger it if you're draining your target's energy or interrupting all of their spells.

The points will be better spent on Wilderness Survival, and the slot of Troll Unguent. You are a ranger. The better you make yourself at surviving, the more of an annoyance you are guaranteed to be.

Dropping Backfire will also open up Monk secondary to you, so consider taking Mending Touch instead of Antidote Signet. Whichever one you take will be a matter of personal preference.

FoxBat · Nov 28, 2010, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zawk Tirson

The mesmers that cause troubles are the ones I don't have a line of sight too.

Shadowstep down (heart of shadow), try running up to the ledge they are under, run away, or don't play ranger. You can always roll mesmer if you want to interrupt without line of sight.

The build I provided will kill vs smite monks casting healing/restful breeze, but it will not prevail against someone packing decent heals. The game is largely balanced against any single character being able to do that, but the popular jq mesmer probably has the best shot, with ~60 DPS just from wastrel's skills on the carrier and damage/denial to boot on the monk.

Amy Awien · Nov 28, 2010, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zawk Tirson

Lately I've been frustrated with ranger builds for Jade Quarry.

In JQ you're supposed to (a) focus on capturing NPC posts, not killing players and (b) prevent the opposition from capping posts.

For (a) you can bring something like Incendiary Arrow + Apply poison. Even if RoJ caster can kill faster, you can work from range and this is one map that allows you to exploit bow range.

For (b) you bring the usual D-Shot and Savage Shot.

That leaves you with four slots, for condition and possibly hex-removal, running/defensive and/or offensive stance(s) (Natural Stride works fine) and maybe a self heal, though you get auto-rezzed real quick so dying is not a problem. Pick what fits you playstyle best.

Another offensive possibility is Poison Arrow + Barbed Arrows which is potentially more damaging, but also leaves you open to attacks from NPC archers longer then Incendiary Arrow + Apply Poison. Besides that, for IA only one victim neads to be in range, two others can be out of actual bow range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zawk Tirson

...but it's pretty much only good at capping Shrines, ...

But that's your job.

Quote:

The mesmers that cause troubles are the ones I don't have a line of sight too.

(a) Get out of their range
(b) Ingnore them

Fay Vert · Nov 28, 2010, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Rangers can also crip and take down with degen any turtle/jug that is not escorted. Backfire is a horrible idea.

I used to love weaken knees too but they nerfed that

Maver1ck87 · Nov 28, 2010, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Take empathy as well, its like backfire except for warriors. Also Esurge has great synergy with debillating shot!

Aldric · Nov 28, 2010, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Its been a while since Ive JQ'd but Incendiary Arrows & Apply poison, stance and a few interupts was my preferred build to run. Just customise the final slots with what ever is your preference for your playstyle Rend Ench/Pindown/Condi or Hex removal etc

Long cast skills like backfire reduce your effectiveness for very little gain. Someone will probably just interupt you during casting or hex remove it.

Also Dshot should never be taken from the bar if using a bow

Xiaquin · Nov 28, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Mixed up Dodge with a different IMS, thought the recharge was way shorter, my bad.

It's also been a little while for me, but I avoided mesmers when I saw them. Even if you can shut one down, you have better things to do, like cap, because RoJ means there's always something being wiped.

WhiteAsIce · Dec 06, 2010, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I run:
Expertise 12+1+1
Marksmanship 9+1
WS 9+1
Prot Prayers 3
---
Barrage
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Debilitating Shot
Natural Stride
Mending Touch
Troll Unguent
Barbed Trap

Get some height and spam Barrage on shrines. Use Nat Stride when capping Archer shrines. Deb Shot on annoying casters when not interrupting. Trap over enemy spawning portals, or over commonly used paths of the enemy.

Amy Awien · Dec 06, 2010, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Yes, I see barrage being used in JQ, but they carry Lightning Reflexes to prevent Barrage from receiving a d-shot.

PurpleFission · Dec 07, 2010, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I normally run:
Cripshot
Dshot
Savage Shot
Apply Poison
Lightning Reflexes
Mending touch
Natural Stride
Muddy Terrain
Watch the monks rage:' why isnt my make haste working?!?'

Divine Ashes · Dec 08, 2010, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Personally, I run:

Melandrus Shot
Apply Poison
Needling shot
Savage Shot
Dshot
Natural Stride
Troll's Unguent
Rend Enchant

Has never led me astray. You have good mobility around the map, great interrupt capabilities, a method to completely eliminate (and upset, which is always good for lawls) Necro bombers, and a good ability to rather quickly take out turtles/juggies. Also, if you were so inclined and had little else to do in the defense/turtle killing department, equip that flatbow and spread some poison and bleeding around a shrine. You can probably take out a whole shrine in about 30 seconds.

Balky · Dec 11, 2010, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Pure Ranger build i`ve used in JQ with a great deal of success, Caps, Kills Jugs, and trust me, you interrupt casters constantly.

Poison Tip Sig, Disrupting Accuracy, Burning Arrow, Hunters Shot, Savage, Needling, Throw dirt, Troll Unguent

Marks 12+3+1
Expertise 12+2
Wild 3

Customised 20/20 Hornbow with Marks Wrap and Strength and Honour Inscrip

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Xiaquin · Dec 11, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Pure Ranger build i`ve used in JQ with a great deal of success, Caps, Kills Jugs, and trust me, you interrupt casters constantly.

Poison Tip Sig, Disrupting Accuracy, Burning Arrow, Hunters Shot, Savage, Needling, Throw dirt, Troll Unguent

Marks 12+3+1
Expertise 12+2
Wild 3

Customised 20/20 Hornbow with Marks Wrap and Strength and Honour Inscrip

OgATcZ8kZ6ScXT36wQ1oVC1w3AA

Looks like fun, but don't look now, I hear the D-shot police coming.

Amy Awien · Dec 11, 2010, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Ray of Judgement is on a 20 sec recharge so Savage Shot should be fine. Most fun is it to catch them casting it right after they've used Arcane Echo

But I wouldn't try to interrupt with a hornbow.